Who says that the downturn economy cant be the mother of invention? CorpsJD My company has recently been working on an automated wetland delineation mappping and reporting GIS GPS-capable software-as-a-service. I was wondering if anyone would like to take a look at out flash page and comment? Or take a survey...? Things are going so well we've moved up the release. Thanks in advance. email me at: lori@nvwetlands.com if you wish.

Sound interesting will you be at the SWS annual conference coming up in June?

So with your software can we just sit on the ground with laptops and delineate wetlands like the pictures in your brochure?

Lori,
I reviewed your brochure and there is no reference to jurisdictional determinations in your software package. The jurisdictional determination is the first step in the wetlands evaluation process which should be performed prior to delineation. It would be nice to have good software that could automate the process for filling-out the latest JD forms.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Johnny Stevens,

quote:

Originally posted by Brandon Searcey:
So with your software can we just sit on the ground with laptops and delineate wetlands like the pictures in your brochure?

Sure, if you want to...as long as you have an internet connection and some one to dig the soil pits, take veg and hydro data...cute....actually, this is a very powerful tool. You can prepare a field base map, upload to your GPS, go to the field and focus on the site and what makes it a wetland or not. Sometimes it feels as if we're gathering data to fill in data sheets. We’ve taken the tedium out and left the science to you. When you get back to the office simply key in the field data and a GIS map with data points is automatically prepared. You finalize the delineation and the report is generated from the data in the data sheets. If you change something in the data sheets, the map and reports are automatically changed as well.

We have a soft release in May and will be at the SWS Conference in SLC in June. You can play with it there. Thanks for the comment.

quote:

Originally posted by Johnny Stevens:
Lori,
I reviewed your brochure and there is no reference to jurisdictional determinations in your software package. The jurisdictional determination is the first step in the wetlands evaluation process which should be performed prior to delineation. It would be nice to have good software that could automate the process for filling-out the latest JD forms.

Johnny,

I’m glad that you brought that up. There is only so much you can say in a brochure. Once data is entered into the data sheets, calculations are automatic and edits -instantaneous. There are five modules which do the calculations and provide alerts should you make a keypunch or protocol error. The data sheet database generates a Wetland Delineation Report with attachments. The Report was formatted from the USACE minimum standards (for Districts that had them). The software is structured so that you can also file share via WebEX or Go to Meeting, etc., with clients and agencies from your office (even the field). Again, if there are changes from draft to final they’re instantly updated.

If you’re like us and deal with several USACE offices in different cities and states, it would be nice to review files online and not fly/drive there on the Client’s budget. We’ve got each supplement coded with the REGs and RGLs as an aid, because as we all know, not all wetlands are regulated...

Have you thought of being part of the Pilot?

What’s different about our system is that we’ve bundled all the software you need on a platform that is User friendly and GIS simple. You can conduct field studies, map, report and communicate all on one platform and create your own APIs. We’re really (trying) streamlining the process to best serve the resource.

quote:

Originally posted by Ty Whitaker:
Sound interesting will you be at the SWS annual conference coming up in June?

Yes, we've submitted an abstract and are planning to have a confernce room nereby where you can actually use the software at the conference. Why don't you bring a delieantion and utilize the software to see how much time you'd save?

quote:

Originally posted by Lori Carpenter:

quote:

Originally posted by Ty Whitaker:
Sound interesting will you be at the SWS annual conference coming up in June?

Yes, we've submitted an abstract and are planning to have a confernce room nereby where you can actually use the software at the conference. Why don't you bring a delieantion and utilize the software to see how much time you'd save?

oops, didn't spell check b4 posting. Sorry!

Lori,
What are the following acronyms:
REGs, RGLs, and APIs

quote:

Originally posted by Andrew Geffert:
Lori,
What are the following acronyms:
REGs, RGLs, and APIs

Oh, sorry.
REGs = USACE Regulations
REGs 1

Regs 2

RGLs = USACE Regional Guidance Letters
http://www.usace.army.mil/cecw/pages/rglsindx.aspx
RGLs
APIs = Applications for the GIS system that the User implements much like an iphone.

I hope this helps.

quote:

Originally posted by Lori Carpenter:

quote:

Originally posted by Brandon Searcey:
So with your software can we just sit on the ground with laptops and delineate wetlands like the pictures in your brochure?

Sure, if you want to...as long as you have an internet connection and some one to dig the soil pits, take veg and hydro data...cute....actually, this is a very powerful tool. You can prepare a field base map, upload to your GPS, go to the field and focus on the site and what makes it a wetland or not. Sometimes it feels as if we're gathering data to fill in data sheets. We’ve taken the tedium out and left the science to you. When you get back to the office simply key in the field data and a GIS map with data points is automatically prepared. You finalize the delineation and the report is generated from the data in the data sheets. If you change something in the data sheets, the map and reports are automatically changed as well.

We have a soft release in May and will be at the SWS Conference in SLC in June. You can play with it there. Thanks for the comment.

power point with CorpsJD

We use this internal package to do a quick assessment when land owners call and need quick information. It really only takes minutes.
This Youtube video gives you a quick look at the automated data sheets.

Hi all,
It is always comforting to see that Johnny Stevens OCJD (Obsessive Compulsive Jurisdictional Disease) with respect to the difference between delineation and jurisdiction issue does not have a cure and he is still breathing. Johnny, there is a big, big, big difference between delineation and jurisdiction. Too bad you will never understand that.

Just in case the software presented above isn't meeting your needs at $1,250 to $5,000 a shot, I have a competitive software at $400 that also runs on a PDA @ $250 that has been developed over the last 15 years and has a lot of features that I bet you won't find in CorpsJD, try http://www.WetForm.com. Watch the video that shows you what it does. WetForm does not claim to do the mapping, just collect the sample data in a great way and do all the input and output with great reporting that includes photos and maps. With respect to CorpsJD's claims about its capabilities, if you think that you will alway be able to be online when you are doing wetland work, or can actually see a notebook screen in the sunshine, you are mistaken. I use ArcPad and Trimble to get the actual mapping done and to get the 1-meter accuracy that is required by COE in some districts, and I collect the sample site data with WetForm. You can always get the soils mapping date when you get back to the office, or just load the free soils mapping from NRCS into ArcPad and know what it is instantly. The reality is that the soils mapping is really secondary to the soil pit. Soil mapping from SCS/NRCS is only so accurate. What is actually in your pit is what rules. Like I said, get the data free from NRCS and use ArcPad if you really want to know what is "supposed" to be in your location.

I love the CorpsJD concept, but I have been working on this a long time and really focusing on the maximum efficiency of this process, and my recommendation is; use WetForm to collect the data and report it, use ArcPad with good GPS hardware to get the meter to sub-meter data.

As far as I can tell, there is nothing in the actual data form that CorpsJD does that WetForm doesn't do. All the logic is handled in WetForm just like it is in CorpsJD.

And what may be more relevant, WetForm Desktop for all regions is available NOW, and well tested. However, if you still think taking a notebook computer out into the field is a good idea, try it first outside in front of your office in the sun, oh ya, and get internet connection with that expensive wireless plan.

Some of the more expensive tablets with transflective screens might work OK, but you are still going to need a sub-meter GPS to record the delineation to COE standards.

The good PDA's like the HP-211 or HP-111 work great outside and only cost 300-400 bucks. The ArcPad software costs $650, and a WAAS enabled GPS that connects with bluetooth costs $75. That will give you 2-5m accuracy. If you want sub-meter, just rent or buy a real GPS unit. They cost from $2000 to $8000.

I don't mean to disrespect CorpsJD, but I do want you to know that I have put a lot of though into this and I want to share it. The goal is to get the work done accurately, efficiently and as comfortably as the heat, humidity, bugs, and wetfeet will allow.

Just get'er done right.

Pat

By the way, Lori Carpenter has purchased WetForm so ask her how it works. Something tells me that my software was their template for what they wanted to build.

Hi all,
It is always comforting to see that Johnny Stevens OCJD (Obsessive Compulsive Jurisdictional Disease) with respect to the difference between delineation and jurisdiction issue does not have a cure and he is still breathing. Johnny, there is a big, big, big difference between delineation and jurisdiction. Too bad you will never understand that.


Interesting post for April Fool’s Day it evokes a typically grand SWS discussion. A wetland delineation is a boundary determination; the US Army Corps of Engineers (USACE) makes a jurisdictional determination, hence CorpsJD. I understand that it’s hard to evaluate CorpsJD from a brochure, so let me provide clarification, please read on.

Just in case the software presented above isn't meeting your needs at $1,250 to $5,000 a shot,

With respect to cost effective, I think the true measure depends on how one values time. CorpsJD is cost effective because the typical user saves up to 50% of the field time and up to 80% of the office time. Generally, a User can spend the time and eat the budget or spend part of the budget, get the time back and use the remaining budget how they determine best.

I have a competitive software at $400 that also runs on a PDA @ $250 that has been developed over the last 15 years and has a lot of features that I bet you won't find in CorpsJD, try http://www.WetForm.com. Watch the video that shows you what it does. WetForm does not claim to do the mapping, just collect the sample data in a great way and do all the input and output with great reporting that includes photos and maps.

The major difference between CorpsJD and other software products is that CorpsJD is software-as-a-service (SaaS). SaaS is an on demand platform which bundles the various software you need. In CorpsJD’s case, IT stores the data, allows for file sharing, prepares GIS maps, and prepares auto-generated wetland delineation reports as opposed to a packaged software which runs on an individual computer.

7Q10 prepared a table indicating the results of software functions of publically available wetland delineation software compared against CorpsJD’s functionality. There were several ‘in-house’ software packages that were not publically available that could only be compared via discussions with the Individual Company. Just this week, another program was brought to our attention and we’ve made inquires. When results are finalized, 7Q10 will have the opportunity to publish. [B]

With respect to CorpsJD's claims about its capabilities, if you think that you will alway be able to be online when you are doing wetland work, or can actually see a notebook screen in the sunshine, you are mistaken.

[B]CorpsJD doesn’t require Users to have a computer in the field. The point is that you’re free to collect the data, to focus on the field indicators, whether you’re the high tech Guru with the latest GPS gear, including wireless, tablet or PC, or a ‘classic’ wetland scientist with typical field equipment (field vest, Muncell, Loop, Augur, Plant press, Jepson, GPS, Rite-In-The-Rain, Field Base Map, etc.). Before you go to the field, CorpsJD will create a field base map for upload to a GPS (or not), and now …GO collect data!

I use ArcPad and Trimble to get the actual mapping done and to get the 1-meter accuracy that is required by COE in some districts, and I collect the sample site data with WetForm.
Personally, I find that for recordation, a field notebook (Rite-in-the-Rain) generally works best (<$5.0). Others in my office go high-tech. Access to the web IS NOT required to fully utilize CorpsJD. CorpsJD doesn’t need to be utilized outside and that’s the beauty of it. What CorpsJD offers is a way to organize field data collection so that the focus remains on the resource.

You can always get the soils mapping date when you get back to the office, or just load the free soils mapping from NRCS into ArcPad and know what it is instantly. The reality is that the soils mapping is really secondary to the soil pit. Soil mapping from SCS/NRCS is only so accurate. What is actually in your pit is what rules. Like I said, get the data free from NRCS and use ArcPad if you really want to know what is "supposed" to be in your location.

ArcPad and Trimble is a great system, I understand that HDR does this too? ...don't they?. I agree that the NRCS soils data alone is secondary to soil pit data. However, some of the best wetland scientists I know are soil scientists. I respectfully disagree about the accuracy of the NRCS data and NRCS mapped soils. It’s generally very good and lends an intuitive understanding of site conditions that explain soil chemistry and morphology (…chemical and physical integrity). This is important because wetland indicators look different over the growing season. USACE protocols are designed to be utilized year round (as necessary) and a review of NRCS soils conditions prior to site review helps to understand conditions that drive wetland processes. Forewarned is fair armed.

I love the CorpsJD concept, but I have been working on this a long time and really focusing on the maximum efficiency of this process, and my recommendation is; use WetForm to collect the data and report it, use ArcPad with good GPS hardware to get the meter to sub-meter data.

With respect to a GPS unit, 7Q10 recommends that you follow the USACE district protocol.

Once you’re back in the office, CorpsJD allows for quick data entry that instantly creates a GIS map of your project site and allows the wetland scientist to finalize the boundary line by utilizing the mouse to complete the wetland delineation map. Once you’ve finalized the wetland boundary line, CorpsJD generates the report. You finalize the report with your professional field observations and it’s done. File share online with your client and upon client approval email a hyperlink to the agencies for discussion. Print out a copy and mail to the USACE. If you don’t have a copy machine, email the pdf file to your favorite copy shop and let them print it out and mail it for you. CorpsJD can save up to 80% of the office time so that you’re looking for your next job or spending time where you need to.

As far as I can tell, there is nothing in the actual data form that CorpsJD does that WetForm doesn't do. All the logic is handled in WetForm just like it is in CorpsJD.

There is a major and fundamental difference about CorpsJD and other programs; CorpsJD is software-as-a-service only requiring your laptop/PC and an internet connection to complete the delineation. CorpsJD has bundled all the software needed. The CorpsJD datasheets are a dash board powered by an MSSQL database that auto populates the wetland delineation report and generates all its attachments, such as five GIS figures, six statistically correct vegetation, soils and data point tables, representative photographs, GIS wetland delineation map and more. Plus, I think you’ll be blown away by the functionality of the soils module because we’ve developed patented algorithms that suggest most likely hydric soil indicators based on your soil profile data. If you’re still not sure you can compare and contrast NRCS photographs against your own.

And what may be more relevant, WetForm Desktop for all regions is available NOW, and well tested.

CorpsJD will release the arid west supplement in May 2010 and will release remaining supplements by July 2010. CorpsJD is undergoing acceptance testing according to industry standards/protocols and supplements will be released once testing is completed.

However, if you still think taking a notebook computer out into the field is a good idea, try it first outside in front of your office in the sun, oh ya, and get internet connection with that expensive wireless plan.

CorpsJD doesn’t require that the User be on the computer outside in the sunshine, nor rain. You collect the field data according to USACE protocol. I know that some folks in our office like to take a PC to the field; I get so muddy that you’d never want me to touch your laptop. I prefer to use field data sheets recorded in Rite-In-The-Rain notebooks so that I can record all my findings. My field assistant or I enter the data to CorpsJD. I double check the data when I go over the GIS map. What I like is that results can be seen within hours of returning to the office. If there’s a gap, I can get immediately back to the field. The great thing about the GIS map is that the symbology indicates which wetland criterion is positive or negative for overall wetland conditions. If you double click on a data point, the data sheet opens and you can make edits and/or check the data. If you make edits, calculations are instantly made and updates are generated within the maps and auto-populated throughout the report.

Some of the more expensive tablets with transflective screens might work OK, but you are still going to need a sub-meter GPS to record the delineation to COE standards. The good PDA's like the HP-211 or HP-111 work great outside and only cost 300-400 bucks. The ArcPad software costs $650, and a WAAS enabled GPS that connects with bluetooth costs $75. That will give you 2-5m accuracy. If you want sub-meter, just rent or buy a real GPS unit. They cost from $2000 to $8000.

With respect to a GPS unit, 7Q10 recommends that you follow the USACE district protocols and GPS manufacturer specifications. For example, 7Q10 found that in some USACE districts, a wetland delineation map must have the stamp of a licensed state land surveyor. In that case, 7Q10 recommends contacting your local licensed state land surveyor for GIS shape file transfer.

I don't mean to disrespect CorpsJD, but I do want you to know that I have put a lot of though into this and I want to share it. The goal is to get the work done accurately, efficiently and as comfortably as the heat, humidity, bugs, and wetfeet will allow.

Agreed.

Just get'er done right.

Pat

quote:

Originally posted by Patrick Murphy:
By the way, Lori Carpenter has purchased WetForm so ask her how it works. Something tells me that my software was their template for what they wanted to build.

CorpsJD is software-as-a-service, complete online GIS GPS-capable wetland delineation, mapping and reporting system which utilizes the USACE supplements) data form format consistent with required scientific and USACE standards and protocols. The USACE supplements are the industry standard and publically available. The two processes are different by nature. One is a complete system; one is piece of a system, the data forms. Both require field equipment and a laptop or PC and CorpsJD requires an internet connection. Depending on your specific needs each has a place. 7Q10 developed CorpsJD because we see a fundamental change in industry that will demand a new product if we’re to stay competitive today and in the future. Users can file share and communicate in new ways. CorpsJD Users don’t have to buy, install and maintain many different software types because in CorpsJD it’s all bundled. CorpsJD does the maintenance and because its built on the ESRI platform, CorpsJD Users will always have access to the latest ESRI updates.

So stayed tuned May is just a month away until the CorpsJD release. 7Q10 plan to present at the SWS Conference in Salt Lake City in June.

Thanks for the more complete explanation. I think I have a much better understanding of what you are trying to achieve but was greatly mislead by the picture on the brochure. The brochure makes CorpsJD seem like a mostly field oriented software, but from your explanation it is a mostly office based compilation and communication program that includes gathering info you might want prior to fieldwork.

Patrick said:
“...Johnny, there is a big, big, big difference between delineation and jurisdiction. Too bad you will never understand that...”

Dear Patrick,
I have worked in the real estate development industry for 25 years and I understand the difference between delineation and jurisdiction. Our consultant and attorneys are experts in CWA jurisdiction and are advocates for the rights of property owners, and have served us well over the years.

Since the SWANCC decision in 2001, we have developed several large residential and commercial projects. Like most successful developers, we evaluate wetlands prior to purchasing land and try to avoid land that is encumbered by wetlands. And we design our projects to avoid impacts to jurisdictional wetlands. With this approach we have avoided the wetlands permit process on all of our projects since 2001 and have not been subject to any enforcement action.

Approximately three years ago we received an inquiry from the agencies on one of our projects and we responded by providing a copy of our wetlands report which documented the jurisdictional status. The agencies did not contact us again after receiving this report. This approach has also been adopted by others in the industry and is not that uncommon.

I recognize that this approach may not be applicable in places like Colorado or California because there are wide variations in the interpretation, application, and enforcement of wetlands law.

Judging by some of the comments on this forum, it seems that many wetland practitioners prefer the delineation and permitting approach over the avoidance approach.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Johnny Stevens,

Lori

Wow that software looks great. Its defiantly going on my want to buy list.

The topic was wetland delineation and you diverted tne discussion to jurisdiction. When you do that over and over again, it is a form of topic hijacking. There is a current topic that DOES concern jurisdiction, and you may have noticed that there was no criticism on my part when you commented there.

Regardless of the fact that you appear to think that jurisdiction can precede delineation you are TOTALLY WRONG. That consultant you talk about went out to the site to delineate wetlands. He/she saw that there were or were not wetlands there. That is what is called wetland delineation. If there were no wetlands of any type at the site, then that was a determination that there were no wetlands. If there were wetlands, then and only then can a justification for jurisdiction or non-juridiction be made. The consultant submits the DELINEATION and the arguments for or against the jurisdiction of the delineated wetlands. The COE and only the COE does the JD.

It sounds to me like you are one layer away from actually doing the delineation and that may explain why you really don't understand the process the consultant is completing.

Don't believe me, call the COE and talk to them directly. I have dealt directly with COE in Colorado (three different districts), Texas, Utah, Wyoming, Idaho, and South Dakota. This process works the same everywhere.

I hope that helps you understand that a topic that concerns wetland delineation is separate (although related) to jurisdiction.

Patrick said:

“…The COE and only the COE does the JD…”

The Corps has traditionally assumed the task of preparing and verifying jurisdictional determinations as part of its permitting program. However, there is no statute or regulation which stipulates that the Corps has sole legal authority for performing jurisdictional determinations. Any land owner may undertake due diligence to evaluate the jurisdictional status of its property without violating the law or notifying government agencies.

After the Rapanos decision the Corps’ authority to determine jurisdiction over isolated waters was sharply restricted and today any isolated call must be officially approved by the EPA. The EPA has refused to approve many isolated determinations made by the Corps and it is almost impossible to get an official EPA verification of isolated wetlands.

In cases involving isolated waters, a land owner is far better served by obtaining an independent determination of CWA jurisdiction from an expert consultant or attorney who is knowledgeable in the judicial aspects of CWA jurisdiction. Otherwise, there is a high risk of significant expense, extended delays, and the strong possibility of being forced to obtain a permit when a permit is not legally required.

Many land owners and developers have learned from bitter experience to avoid so-called “experts” who are reticent about defending property rights.