Johnny,
You need to talk to the Corps directly. You are so misguided that I refuse to go round and round in circles with your errors. You keep saying that anyone can make a juridictional determination, and that is TOTALLY WRONG.

quote:

Originally posted by Tommy Dye:
Lori

Wow that software looks great. Its defiantly going on my want to buy list.

I'm not sure of your wetland status, here are a few very cool features:
a. Create an online project with interactive maps showing data points where field data was collected.
b. Fill in interactive wetland delineation forms which are linked to your maps with all calculations for Vegetation, Soils and Hydrology done accurately with the click of a mouse button.
c. Obtain recommendations for "Most Likely" soil indicators based on your soil profile entered
d. Generate a complete wetland delineation report complete with attachments such as Wetland Delineation Maps, Topography map, Soil Map, Project Site Map, wetland delineation data forms, representative photos of your site, vegetation lists, etc. (No need to buy any additional GIS software)
e. Download a field base map to help you determine areas to visit /collect data on your project site.
f. Share your project with others online.
b. Access your project anywhere, anytime and collaborate with other people on the same data without needing to transfer huge files.
c. Maintain a corporate User Defined Vegetation list shared by all employees in your company (Corporate Account)
d. Corporate Project managers can determine which team members get access to which projects.

Maybe you'd like to demo or pilot?

Patrick,

If a developer hires a consultant to delineate a wetland on his development site, and then that consultant employs the Rapanos Guidance and "DETERMINES" that that delineated wetland does not meet the criteria of a "waters of the United States" and then the developer proceeds with his development plans to fill that wetland without contacting the Corps, that developer has made, for his purposes, a "jurisdictional determination", has he not? He does not have a Corps Approved Jurisdictional Determination. But his determination may or may not hold-up in court should the Corps decide to challenge his determination.

I believe what Johnny is saying is that, in such circumstances, if a consultant knows his business, the Corps will have no good legal basis on which to challenge a developer's determination and the developer will have saved himself a lot of hassle from an over-reaching regulator.

I know this is just semantics, but it is legal semantics. If it is a real Jurisdictional Determination it is done by the COE. Everything else is a Jurisdictional Guess, or a Jurisdictional Argument, or a Jurisdictional Decision, or a Jurisdictional best estimate, or Jurisdictional Opinion. I will never ever accept it as a Jurisdictional Determination. I dare you to hand something to the COE and tell them it is your Jurisdictional Determination. We usually submit a Wetland and Jurisdiction Finding Report and then wait for the COE to hand us a JD.

My apologies to Lori. This is what I mean when I say that threads get hijacked by the OCJD topic.

quote:

Originally posted by Patrick Murphy:
My apologies to Lori. This is what I mean when I say that threads get hijacked by the OCJD topic.

CorpsJD fan page

No worries, please semantics aside, I had two 20-hour days last week and could really use a day off...hijack me to a vacation day paid please! We have a contest here for whomever gets the most fans gets a day off...! The growing season has started here in the Arid West and with field work and software to launch there is no rest for the wicked nor, the JD prone and I did say that we (consultants - typically) collect the data, prepare a report (or not if RLG 08-02 or in the east) and we make a submission to the USACE and then ask for a jurisdictional determination (JD) of which only the almightly USACE can make.

So remember, vote for me...on facebook...Signed tired in Reno.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Reed:
Patrick,

If a developer hires a consultant to delineate a wetland on his development site, and then that consultant employs the Rapanos Guidance and "DETERMINES" that that delineated wetland does not meet the criteria of a "waters of the United States" and then the developer proceeds with his development plans to fill that wetland without contacting the Corps, that developer has made, for his purposes, a "jurisdictional determination", has he not? He does not have a Corps Approved Jurisdictional Determination. But his determination may or may not hold-up in court should the Corps decide to challenge his determination.

I believe what Johnny is saying is that, in such circumstances, if a consultant knows his business, the Corps will have no good legal basis on which to challenge a developer's determination and the developer will have saved himself a lot of hassle from an over-reaching regulator.

Matt. I’d like to weigh in as well. We're talking about two things. One) the methods, protocols or techniques that a scientist utilizes to perform a wetland delineation and Two) how is a planned activity in a wetland regulated.

If I, Lori Carpenter, PWS give you a wetland delineation map with a wetland boundary it is just that...my opinion. The USACE is only legal party that can verify my line and only the USACE can tell you whether the site is (subject to or, not) the Rapanos guidance/provisions. Also, please be careful, in most states the activities are still regulated as a “waters of the state”.

If a client moves forward without calling the USACE they do so at their own risk. That's all. Of course, people do move forward all the time, its just at their own risk. This discussion is really moving into the regulations surrounding waters of the United States (WOUS)/wetlands. The interesting thing about WOUS/wetlands is that generally it's the activity (you plan to do within) the WOUS/wetland that needs a permit (or not) and generally (above a certain threshold) before YOU can get a permit or generally even apply for one - the applicant (YOU) need a verified wetland delineation. Even under the RGL 08-02 ( http://www.usace.army.mil/CECW/Pages/rglsindx.aspx ).

I highly suggest the USACE Sacramento District Website ( http://www.spk.usace.army.mil/...cespk-co/regulatory/ ). There is more information than you could ask for! It’s organized well. Good Luck.RGL 08-02

Lori,
Well said. If you move foward with a project without Corps confirmation, you do so at your own risk. I think what Johnny keeps saying is that the risk is very small with a well qualified opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by Lori Carpenter:
Lori
Maybe you'd like to demo or pilot?

I didn't see a link to a demo on the website, I would like to play around with it if possible.

Tommy

Regarding an independent determination of CWA jurisdiction, Andrew said;

"...I think what Johnny keeps saying is that the risk is very small with a well qualified opinion..."

Thanks for clarifying this point. The Supreme Court and other federal courts have restricted the geographical reach of CWA jurisdiction but the agencies aggressively oppose these legal restrictions. Federal agencies are subject to the authority of federal courts and will reluctantly respect relevant court decisions, but only in cases where land owners diligently assert their legal rights.

One of the greatest risks associated with an agency jurisdictional determination is the misleading and incorrect information that is often provided in the early stages of a project about the schedule and scope-of-work necessary to obtain a permit. A land owner may be told that the process will take six months when the real schedule is indeterminate. After six months and no permit, a land owner is informed of other complications and the delays continue (many wetland practitioners are complicit in this deception). This has caused economic damages and job losses in a weak economy and has caused the regulated public to seek alternative methods of regulatory compliance.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Johnny Stevens,

If you teach at a University with a wetland program and are teaching a wetland class, 7Q10, Inc., would like to extend an invitation to utilize CorpsJD for your classes (at a nominal cost of $1.0). The arid west supplement will be released May 3, 2010 and all others by August 2010. Please see CorpsJDfor more information. For qualifying information, please call me at 775-828-1991, or 888-771-0462.

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